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SearchTV Episode 5: Optimize Your Optimization

by Courtney Logel

Have you ever wondered how to “Optimize Your Optimization?” In the latest episode of SearchTV- a 30 minute, 10 topic rapid-fire talk show, Slingshot SEO Senior Sales Exec Jim Brown and Consulting Manager Jesse Laffen discuss ideas of how to optimize your optimization once you’ve attained rankings.

Have you ever thought about the origin of your site visitor? Are they visiting from Bing, Yahoo! or Google? According to research by Brown, 58% of MSN users are women and 73% of them are over the age of 35. By using analytics data, you can see where your visitors are coming from and make marketing adjustments accordingly.

“The most expensive thing beyond development is redevelopment.”

Other topics in the show include re-inclusion requests, search retargeting, attention=links and URL parameters. The final rant, “Flying Blind” was awarded to Jim Brown. He discusses how a company must share its focus with its SEO company. According to Brown, “We can not optimize you for a million items, but if we break it down into top performing categories or product lines we can more easily help you! And the same goes for analytics. If we have insight into your analytics,” we are able to better understand and adjust your campaign.

Watch the video for the whole story of these search topics. Look for SearchTV next month on Thursday, September 1st! In the meantime, if you have any questions for the SearchTV cast, tweet Jim or Jesse, or leave a comment below!

Translation

Jim:

Good afternoon everybody. Welcome back to Search TV. We are now in our fifth month I think, something like that.

Jesse:

Sounds right.

Jim:

Maybe fourth. I don’t know. August here, so we’re back, and it’s actually cool outside today for here in Indianapolis, if cool is 85 degrees.

Jesse:

I’ll take it.

Jim:

We’re going to get right into the show today. So, the first thing that we’re going to talk about is our click through rate study. If you have not seen that, our research and development team, Casey and Evan, kind of led that up with many other people on the team who did it. We actually released it. It was picked up on SEOmoz. They actually published it while out at MozCon. Tell me a little bit about what we did. We looked at the first page search results and said, here’s where people click, but talk to me about it.

Jesse:

So, this is kind of the idea that Google never really releases this information. We’ve always assumed, rightfully, that the first position gets more clicks than the second and third and so on. Exactly how much more is always this black hole where nobody really knew exactly what was going on in there. There was some leaked data from AOL in 2006 and some other studies that have been done. We started to look at all of the data that we had compiled. Then we thought, well, shoot, we’ve got enough data here to actually look at this.

So our R&D team, Casey, Dave and Evan did a fantastic job. They actually found that a first place ranking has, relative to Google’s reported AdWords numbers, all of these numbers are relative, almost twice as many clicks as the second position. So it was 18.2% to 10.5%. The really cool thing that I got excited about in this study was that they actually analyzed the long-tail implications of a first or second or third place ranking too. I’m not going to give those away right now. You’re going to have to go to our website and download the white paper. But yeah, it’s just really, really fascinating stuff.

Jim:

So we don’t have to share the link, we’re actually going to put that out on the Twitter stream. So follow #SearchTV. We’ll throw that link up to the analysis on the Twitter stream.

Jesse:

Yeah. Another really, really fascinating thing to me was how Google Instant has affected how many people are actually clicking through when Google is saying that was a search. So if I stop typing for three seconds, now it’s a search. Those guys found that only 55% of every single query was actually being clicked through. Now, you’d have to assume that that kind of goes up with the long-tail, because the more I type, the more my results reflect what I’m looking for. But that number is a little bit lower than we had seen in the past. So, just really good stuff there. Really encourage you to go get that, and I know that they’re going to do a second release of that pretty soon.

Jim:

So, Jesse took the entire two minutes. I got to say nothing about that.

Jesse:

Sorry. I’m really pumped up about it.

Jim:

Real quick, the two notes that I do want to make. You kind of alluded to it. 52% of searchers click in the organic results, 48% click somewhere else. Now, for all you PPC guys out there, that does not mean they’re clicking on PPC ads. They could be clicking on images, AdWords, which is PPC, the places, news links. They could be doing a new query, and they might actually be going to page two. So there we go.

Jesse:

Maybe. Some of them do. So, we’re going to switch gears a little bit. One of the themes in the show was once you’ve achieved that ranking, what are some things that you can do to optimize your optimization? So one of the things that we wanted to talk about a little bit were the demographics of searchers. So, search demographics have traditionally been another thing that are kind of elusive. We get browser, all these technical things, but not necessarily male, female, age, demographic, that kind of thing. So as a marketer or as a salesperson, I would imagine that that’s pretty valuable information.

Jim:

Definitely valuable. Some of the things, even beyond that, is what’s the primary reason of going to a search engine? Who’s doing it? We started to get into this topic. Obviously, I don’t know how many people see all of it, but there was a study done that says, “Are Internet Explorer users dumber than others?” You can check that out on Mashable. TechCrunch I think ran it. CNN ran it, etc. But they did an IQ test based on where you were coming from on your browser. Basically, there was a few percentage points that said if you came from Firefox or Chrome or something like that, you’re a little bit smarter.

Some of the stats that I was able to pull. MSN, 58% of their users were women. I pulled this from a couple different sources. Over 73% were age 35 or above. So that was an interesting statistic that I thought. As it alluded to on Alexa was that because it’s an older demographic, they’re more likely to have kids. So, if you are, again, thinking about optimizing your optimization as Jesse alluded to, if you’re targeting a product for people who have kids, maybe you should be spending more of your time making sure that you’re ranked on Bing than Google. I don’t know. Just one thought.

Jesse:

Then the opposite side of that is maybe you should start treating traffic from each of those sites a little bit different. For example, if you know that more women are coming from Bing and you offer a product that’s maybe geared toward women, do you market that page in a different way or something like that? So I guess really the takeaway from starting to wrap your head around the demographics of searchers is that you need to start looking through your analytics data, identify the user behavior on your site per traffic source, and then start making those adjustments as necessary, because really, there’s a ton of data to be gained there.

Jim:

Ton of data. I think that’s the greatest thing about Internet marketing and everything is the amount of data that you have at your disposal to make decisions.

Jesse:

Yeah. There’s always a right answer.

Jim:

So, the next topic we’re going to talk about is search retargeting. Some of you purists may be saying, well, that’s actually a paid model and not actually SEO, and I get it. However, what we’re seeing is potentially the need . . . not need. Search retargeting is like an overlap between search and display advertising. We do have to say we have a client, Simplify, if you’d like to check them out. I want to make sure that we’re talking about that. But essentially, let’s say this. Let’s say we have a client who sells . . . you like to use Blue Widgets. I’m not going to use Blue Widgets. Let’s say they sell cups. So they sell plastic Slingshot SEO cups. So, bulk plastic cup is a keyword that I want to go after. With SEO, we would build content around bulk plastic cup so that we can get rankings for that. That would be one standpoint of that.

Well, everybody has seen retargeting where somebody comes to your website, you put a cookie on their machine, and now they go anywhere on the Internet, YouTube, anywhere else, and they start to see ads. Search retargeting is a little bit different in that you’re taking that overlap of keywords, and instead of them ever having to go to your website, they never go to the BulkPlasticCompany.com. You search for it. Google or Bing or whatever passes that primary to another site, and if you have inventory there, you’re basically displaying an ad based on a search rather than them actually coming to your site. Now, what we were talking about were some of the other implications of this. Long-tail search potential, things like that. Where do you see this as a value in leveraging your SEO data?

Jesse:

So, when it comes to purely organic search play, what you’re talking about here is the idea that if I am looking for bulk plastic cups and I land on JimsCups.com or whatever, the next time I’m looking for that product, say it’s a six-month sales cycle, for example. I’m going to visit multiple different vendors multiples different times. The idea here is that organic search can have additional value, because I found Jim’s site the first time. Next time, I may just type in your URL, or I may search for your brand name. In fact, some of the early data that we’re seeing says that organic search can actually result in a ton more search for just a brand.

Jim:

14 times maybe.

Jesse:

Possibly, yeah. Absolutely. So really, when you start to get into analytics and really, really break down the data, you’re going to find that organic search is not necessarily just a last touch model. It can also attribute to a very long sales cycle that could be really beneficial.

Jim:

That whole first-last touch attribution model, that’s something that the analytics guys are raving about right now, but it really does matter. Take a look at that and understand, just because the last thing was a PPC ad that they clicked on doesn’t mean PPC resulted in your sale, as Jesse was saying. It could have been an organic search that started first, but then they got lazy and clicked on the ad.

Jesse:

Absolutely. Which actually leads us into a nice little conversation about another return on investment, which is that from social media.

Jim:

Uh-oh. You said the buzz word. Where’s the bells?

Jesse:

I said social media return on investment.

Jesse:

So, the reason why we laugh is because this is a really, really hot topic right now in large marketing agencies or in-house, whatever. How much money can I make off of Twitter? How much money can I make off of Facebook? It’s not necessarily maybe how much money I’m getting directly from Facebook. Talk a little bit about that.

Jim:

One of the biggest conversations we’ve started to have around this is, what is search? Search is comprised of the people actually doing the search. People by nature are social, so they’re doing things besides just searching. So, one of the things that we’ve talked about is the need to have social signals. We’ve hit on that a couple of times during the show. What are social signals? It’s things that they’re talking about. Tweets, you mentioned that. They’re on Facebook. They’re on other social networks. They’re on Digg. They’re on StumbleUpon. They’re leaving comments on blogs. Those are social activities that they’re doing. So, kind of taking the opposite path of let’s not just look at the ROI of what am I getting out of this, but potentially, and you talked about this, what am I not getting by not being there, if I’m not participating in a conversation?

Jesse:

Yeah, exactly. So, if there is a conversation happening about your brand and you’re not out there engaging it, what’s the negative ROI of not being involved in that conversation, not addressing those concerns immediately when they arise? You can see great brands who do this all the time. Anthem comes to mind. Whenever somebody gets on Twitter and they’re having a problem with their insurance, Anthem responds almost immediately. So what is the opportunity cost? So, maybe not thinking of social as in, how many people came from Twitter and bought something? How many people, instead, were talking about me whose problems I addressed? How many people heard about my brand in Twitter and maybe converted later?

Jim:

How many people saw that you were reaching out to somebody and helping them and thought, wow, if they could help me like that, I’m impressed the way they did that?

Jesse:

Yeah. It almost flips it on its head, because you have this negative piece of content out there, but then all of a sudden, wow, they really, really care.

Jim:

Yeah, to [inaudible 10:08] that, I do love Google by the way. So I saw a post on Google+ a couple days ago, Bryan Povlinski. He went to Red Robin, had major issues with his food, but they overdid it. He told the whole story about how well they did. So again, that’s a conversation. It’s going to happen regardless, but if you’re able to be there and participate in that conversation with the person, that’s your social ROI.

Jesse:

Absolutely.

Jim:

Speaking of Google+, my favorite, let’s talk about Google+ in its first month. So obviously, from an SEO perspective, one of the things that we have to consider is what implications is that going to have toward search rankings, search results based on that? I can’t say that we can come out and adamantly say this is what’s happening. It’s too early for that, especially because brands aren’t even on there yet. It’s still just humans. But some of the things that I’ve been thinking about and how it’s going to impact is private versus public streams. So, if I put something out on Twitter, yes, you can DM, but if you just put something out on Twitter, you can’t select where it goes. Even if you do an @ message, still anybody can see it if they go to your page.

So what’s going to happen with Google, Google having all this information? If I put something out there, again, you’ve brought it up before, I’m a big Nickelback fan, right? So I could have a Nickelback circle, and I could just share my awesome concert reviews of Nickelback with my Nickelback circle. Why would I do that? I want to make sure everybody knows about Nickelback. But if I put a picture of, let’s say, my dog, Google is now going to have contextual information about me sharing something about my dog that could be in a private circle, but they still have access to it, where when it was on Facebook, they didn’t.

Jesse:

Yes.

Jim:

Do you see anything there, like if I talk badly about a product or I say something great about a product, is there going to be search value?

Jesse:

Eventually, there could be. Google is always kind of hesitant to do anything that can be gamed really, really easily. So for instance, negative reviews aren’t necessarily always a bad ranking factor. Yes or no. So that’s kind of one of those examples. But in the same context of if you go on Google+ and you say, hey, I hated this Kudos bar or whatever you just bought, I don’t really see them getting into that kind of a semantic game quite yet. Just as far as what they’re actually doing right now today with Google+, they’ve kind of flip-flopped a couple of times on what they are indexing. So right now, they are indexing profiles, but they aren’t showing posts in their search results. That’s gone back and forth a couple times. Like you said, basically Plus is only about people right now, but it is 25 million people in a month.

Jim:

Already.

Jesse:

Yeah, it’s insane. So really, I think that this is just a play by Google to try and get more data. The more that they know about you and I, the better targeting they can do with their ads.

Jim:

It seems like they finally got social right.

Jesse:

Yeah. So, kind of in keeping with this theme of optimizing your optimization, we just wanted to break down maybe three really, really, really important things for enterprise companies in the SEO space. Jim, you kind of brought these to the table, so I’ll let you get started, but I think these are great.

Jim:

One is executive support. So I’m going to allude a little bit to my final rant that I’ll do later, but executive support is crucial, right? So, if you come and say, “You know what, we really need to do SEO. We need to get the rankings. We need to get the traffic around this kind of deal,” and the vice president of technology says, “I’m not changing anything at all on our website,” I don’t care how great of a marketer you are, you’re not getting something done. Or there’s going to be a huge internal battle for that just to get the smallest of changes made. Really, we’ve seen it with clients.

Jesse:

It sounds weird, doesn’t it?

Jim:

One small change on a website could do great things. So that’s one of them.

Jesse:

I cannot stress this enough. Getting buy in from all levels in the company, from the person who’s actually writing the copy to the person who’s responsible for posting it. All of the managers, all of the C suite, everybody needs to buy in, in order for a holistic SEO strategy to really make you a ton of money. It sounds really weird, but we see it. Other companies that operate in the enterprise SEO space all say the same thing. It’s crazy how many clients are willing to listen to all these recommendations, take them, and then nothing happens.

Jim:

And not do anything with it. So another one, SEO ownership of standards. So if you are the marketer, if you’re the SEO owner, don’t let IT own everything about your website. The ability to change headers, the ability to do custom URLs, to publish content, to get content up on your website, that’s got to be owned in the marketing realm, more specifically SEO, but in that marketing realm so that we can have success with this.

Jesse:

Yeah, and actually there’s often a conversation within these larger organizations. Where does the website belong? Is it a sales tool or is it a marketing tool? To us, we usually kind of go with marketing, because really Google is looking for those signals that marketing provides. Are you a brand? Do people like you? Things like that. That’s kind of where we see it, but wherever it is, there has to be some SEO ownership of standards, definitely.

Jim:

And lastly, SEO involvement early in the project. I hear this from developers all the time. The most expensive thing beyond development is redevelopment. So don’t build your website and then call an SEO firm and say, “Hey, help us.” Get us involved early. Get somebody involved in the SEO project early.

Jesse:

Yeah, if you pick up the phone and say, “Hey, could you review this really quick before we launch it,” you just made your SEO very unhappy.

Jim:

Absolutely. Okay. Reinclusion request, there are a lot of things happening. We’ve talked about Panda, we’ve harped on Panda. There are multiple other things that have been algorithm updates that have caused rankings to drop. But what we’re talking about is if there’s an actual, you’ve been hand penalized by Google. Talk to me a little about this. This was kind of your sweet spot.

Jesse:

Yeah, so this was pretty interesting to me, because we actually saw an interview by Eric Enge with one of the Google engineers who actually handles these things. We’d always heard bits and pieces, maybe from Matt Cuts or other Google people, but nobody’s actually really sat down and publically talked about how this process works. I think it was a really good move by Google, because they’re going to save a ton of time and money by just explaining like these are the things that you need to do. Like, don’t send us 37 requests. So I can maybe understand why they did it that way. But it’s actually kind of interesting to me, because Google seems to be a little more forthcoming than they have been in the past. Getting to actually what was said in that interview that kind of caught my attention. Number one was these requests are only for hand penalties, as you’ve kind of said. If you’ve been hit by algorithm, such as Panda, submitting a new request for reinclusion will do absolutely nothing for you. Basically it gets filed in a round bin, and it’s done. It’s over.

Jim:

Because what they’re looking for is whether or not you’ve violated their content policies, their quality guidelines, that kind of deal, if you’re spamming the Internet.

Jesse:

Sure. Or maybe if you have really terrible content. Those are two things that a bot would be able to say, “We’re not so sure about this.” This is pure conjecture I guess, but I’m guessing that Google receives a ton of requests for algo penalties, like, “Oh, I’m sorry I spammed the Internet.” Apparently they aren’t even looking at those.

Jim:

So here’s the other side of this. What happens if I’m doing everything right in my opinion, and I submit a reinclusion request, and then they find out that I was doing something bad?

Jesse:

Yeah. There is that kind of fear, if you will. In that interview, the Google engineer said that it doesn’t happen as often as people think. But the fact that she didn’t say it doesn’t happen kind of alludes to the fact that, hey, maybe a deeper dive could turn up something that maybe you didn’t know about or did.

Jim:

So, the five quick bullet points on that that they said, make sure you’re doing this if you do file a reinclusion request. Be specific. Avoid hiding information. Don’t lie to Google. Bruce Pearl just got fired from Tennessee for lying, so don’t do that. Verify that they won’t see you do the same thing again. Don’t mention how much you spend on ads. We’ve seen that before.

Jesse:

That one was kind of funny to me.

Jim:

“I spend $50,000 a month on your ads. Fix it.” It’s not going to happen. And then explore other issues. Maybe it’s not, like you said, a content issue. Maybe it’s a robot’s thing. You’re telling certain things not to crawl. So there are other things that could be out there besides just a penalty.

Jesse:

Yep. So, we talk a lot about links here, because they’re very important to SEO. We kind of wanted to dive into this idea that attention equals links. So, what does that mean? What does that mean?

Jim:

Well, let’s talk about product launches first. Well, let’s just go into press releases. We talked about press releases a little bit last month. Why would you submit a press release? Well, you have news. You want to draw attention to yourself, whether it’s a new service, new product line. You have a great piece of news, and that’s the reason why press releases are popular. By drawing that news and attention to you, you’re garnering organic links. People are going to link to that content. They’re going to say, “Hey, did you see the new service provided by XYZ company?” And that’s a good thing. Google is looking for that. Hey, look at me. It’s attention. So that’s one of them. We talked about reviews or things like that. What else do you have?

Jesse:

Sure, product launches, like you brought up. Maybe reviews of your new product. Maybe even a little bit of controversy is not a terrible thing for links all the time. Basically, the thing that we’re trying to stress is that your company, your brand gets attention all the time. Is that becoming a digital signal, or is it just kind of living in this offline world? Really thinking about attention as links can get you in the mindset of, all right, people are talking about my brand this way. People are engaging my brand over here in these spaces. How can I go get digital signals that are reflecting actually what’s happening in the offline world?

Jim:

Let’s say you throw a blog out there, and let’s say it is a controversy. You want to go out for some controversy, and you say, “So and so is full of it,” or “I will never buy from X company again.” Something along those lines. You’re drawing attention. Maybe it’s a B2B service to service kind of spat, that kind of deal. But by going on there and getting on the forefront of that, you are drawing attention to yourself. But beyond that, like you said, let’s say it’s all positive and it’s fine, adding additional signals to it. So tweeting about the press release you just put out. Tweeting about the new blog post you just put on there. Liking it on Facebook. Encouraging other people to do it. Raising your hand and saying, “Hey, pay attention to me.” It’s going to garner those signals.

Jesse:

So, one thing that you can do to take advantage of this is look at how are people getting to my site? What kind of terms are they using when they are using my brand name? Where are people talking about me? And then kind of go out and get into those spaces and start creating digital signals where those non-digital signals are happening.

Jim:

Kind of going back to that social ROI. Being involved.

Jesse:

Yeah, a little bit.

Jim:

So, we’re going to get real geeky for a second, and by we, I mean Jesse, because this is definitely more of the tech space. So, URL parameters is a big deal. One of the things that we don’t like to see, if I were to sit here and talk about a domain and I said, let’s say that Slingshot sold these awesome plastic cups. Slingshot.com/category12&productID=13, do you have any idea what that means?

Jesse:

Yeah. So basically, a URL parameter is any time where I’m trying to dynamically change the content that’s being shown to an end user by calling up different categories of things. Let me explain just a bit. So like SlingshotSEO.com/cups. Then you’ll see a question mark maybe, and then category=red&logo=white. So basically I’m telling my database now, hey, I only want red cups with a white logo. Sometimes you can see that this gets out of control. Some major retailers, you try to copy and paste or send a URL to a friend . . .

Jim:

Amazon is guilty of that.

Jesse:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jim:

Their URLs are horrible.

Jesse:

Absolutely. You put it in this email, and in your email it’s that long. Basically, the news that came out of this was that Google is getting much, much better at understanding your URL parameters, and they’re allowing you more control over exactly what you’re telling Google about how you want them to handle those things. But really the important thing, getting out of that geek space or whatever, the really important takeaway from this is that Google is constantly, constantly, constantly upgrading how they understand data, and they’re really, really hungry for more. So, even though today maybe parameters are kind of crappy, and I would maybe even argue that having a billion of them is not a good user experience, but whatever. The idea here is that just because, today, you shouldn’t have a million parameters, that’s not to say that tomorrow you shouldn’t. These things are always changing, and it’s really, really important to understand exactly what Google understands and then serve them up content in the way that they can digest.

Jim:

And this really does allude to the fact that marketing needs to work with IT. So a lot of these things, IT will say, “This is the way to do it, or this is the easy way.”

Jesse:

You see it all the time.

Jim:

Don’t let them be lazy. Own this on the marketing side, and make sure that you’re telling Google the right thing so that Google can better understand that data that you’re presenting.

Jesse:

There are very few things that are impossible on a website. So if your IT person says, “Can’t do it,” challenge them.

Jim:

They’re lazy.

Jesse:

Another kind of technical issue . . . I think I just stole your . . .

Jim:

No, that’s you.

Jesse:

Gotcha. Another technical issue that we like to talk about with clients a lot, a question we get all the time. I’ve got this great piece of content. I want to put it on my website. Should I put it in this folder, so domain.com/greatpieceofcontent? Or should I put it on a subdomain, so like greatpieceofcontent.domain.com? There was actually something that came out of this Panda update, if you want to share that, that I thought was really, really fascinating.

Jim:

So TechCrunch leaked this. HubPages just got killed by the Panda update, but YouTube kind of just took off. So that was kind of the comparison. They said if you call Google out for overusing . . . the phrase they used exactly was “publicly positioned their algorithm as a power by monopoly.” So when you call out Google, they’ll actually help you, and one of those helping things was to say, well maybe put it in a subdomain, whereas for the longest time in the SEO community, subdirectories have been the best practice. So now, it’s kind of been flipped upside down on its head saying, the right solution is now the complete opposite of best practice.

Jesse:

Well, right or wrong solution a little bit, because what they were saying was, take your crappy content and put it on a subdirectory. I thought that was really, really interesting. Just to catch anyone up who’s not familiar, Google owns YouTube, which is why that might be a problem or whatever. So, for the longest time, or I shouldn’t say that actually, way back when, subdomains were kind of treated by search engines as completely different things. So Jesse.domain.com was different than just domain.com. Then over time, they kind of caught up and caught up and caught up to pages.

So we were kind of the mindset that maybe subdomains aren’t so bad anymore. Maybe Google is kind of treating them like pages on a website or something like that. This kind of says that they’re not at all. So really, the takeaway here is that if you have content that you want to be considered kind of separate from the regular part of your domain, maybe you have a completely different audience, maybe you just need a really unique vanity URL or maybe some sort of PPC page would be pretty good reasons to do something like that, then go with that subdomain. But if you have content that you think adds value to your users that you want a search engine to see and index and give you value for, then stick with folders.

Jim:

Right. So this is going to bring us to the end of the show, and I’m going to give the final rants. I kind of label this flying blind. So don’t let your SEO firm, or again, even if you work as an internal agency or internal workshop, don’t fly blind. So what I mean by that, I’ve got to understand focus. If I’m going to work with you, I’m going to help you with your SEO, I have to understand where your focus is. If you sell a million different items, I’m sorry. We cannot optimize you for a million items. We don’t have the manpower for that, nor do you.

But if we start to break that down even into categories or things like that, everybody’s going to have top performing categories. They’re going to have their main focuses. Maybe it’s a product line where there are higher margins, things like that. We need to know that information. We don’t just want to get that information so we can go tell someone else. We want to help you. That’s why you’re hiring us. Further, beyond that is your analytics. If we can’t get into your analytics, it also hinders our ability to help you.

When we can start to see, here’s the amount of people that are coming to your website based on a certain keyword, we can start to look at that halo effect. When we see that halo effect that’s driving additional traffic, we can start to go target those. So now, in addition to ranking for one keyword, we see 10 that’s on the second page. We can start to pick off those and move those to the first page, broadening out your halo effect maybe to 100. So understand that analytics, and really being able to start to see we did X, it resulted in Y, let’s do more of X. We need that ability.

Then also initiatives, and I know Jesse’s talked about this before. When you have other marketing initiatives, you have things that are going on in the real world, the physical world, and you’re doing PR around it, you’re getting ready to do a big ad spin on TV. I just got off the phone earlier with a guy who . . . I was fascinated by this. They are trying to influence search by a TV ad. So they’re telling people what to search for. So they’re monitoring traffic to their site based on keyword based on the five minutes after their commercial’s run. Just absolutely fascinating. So that’s them being able to see the conversion rate of that. So let us know, again, about those initiatives. The more you take us out of that blind area, the more we’re able to help you, or the more you’re able to help champion an internal source.

Jesse:

Optimize your optimization.

Jim:

Optimize your optimization. That’s it. Jesse, thanks again. Everybody out there, thank you for watching. Hope you’re all following along. SearchTV is our hashtag. Takes about a week. We’ll get this up on our website, SlingshotSEO.com for anybody who wants to see it. Other than that, have a great day. We’ll see you in September.

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